Yeah Frozen I hear ya. As stated each gather could have as many as four people who have nothing to do with the league. That's a 2/3 to 1/3 mixture in a system whose purpose, to me, ought to be to facilitate practice, experimentation, and recruitment in the higher divisions. I feel like that mixture is in the sweet spot but the precise numbers are not so important. Maybe we say "up to 6" instead of "up to 4". Technologically these adjustments have zero implementation cost and can they can be tweaked on demand according to how things are progressing. That's not the most important thing here.
nazi hunter izO
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I think eddys idea for the "classic" (or whatever) gathers is pretty good. Having the system based on HIVE HOURS indeed is a terrible idea, at least until we have invite gathers ACTUALLY released. Certain OLD players (ALL OF GOLDAR?) will be excluded although they're much better at the game than others with 1.2k HOURS (not naming anyone here)...
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MAKE GATHERS GREAT AGAIN
-TRUMP 2k16
Really tho, i dont see why we cant add a "serious" gather option in that menu on the gather page, doubt it would require much time to implement, it's really more about who can join, which I think this wonderful community can figure out among themselves.
Alski Syndrome
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Here's an idea:
We set up a Private Gather system that requires a password to join. The password changes on a weekly basis and we create a Steam group (like Golden's Gather Club) where we post the password when it changes. This way, there are technically no requirements and it still works like an Invite system via the private Steam Group. Obviously all the Division 1 players and other high skilled players would be added to the group, and we could give out the password to a few select players during the week (who would then have access until we change the password). In the end it requires less technical work - would just need to clone Classic Gather and add a password requirement.
**I should note this idea is a quick/easy solution and not the optimal idea in the long run**
Also just my personal opinion
Team Awesome
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^ Good idea and seems possible to do quickly. So then we could just have a div 1 gather and a classic/normal gather. No casual 7v7 gather needed.
You would have to rely on the steam group members only inviting certain people for the week. You would also have to make sure only certain admins would have the ability to add people to the steam group. Hopefully you can set restrictions to who can invite people in a steam group.
I'm not sure everyone is going to be happy about this as it creates a special group of ns2 players. At the same time, it might be the only way for everyone to play a gather that works for them.
Will div 1 players only wait for a high skill gather which would result in killing the regular gathers during most times of the day? Or will the normal gather fill most of the time and high skill gathers only being played during times when most players are on? Not sure how it's going to play out.
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The only plausible option that makes sense for the ENSL to do that's been proposed in this thread is to allow registered members to create their own private gather instances. The owner is an admin and can do all the admin things that relate to management of their private gather.
Owners can set a password, and those with the password can join. Owners can send out links that bypass the password to their friends. Those without the password or link can "request" to join, and the owner can approve.
Okay, so why can't this be achieved by ANYONE requesting a channel be created in teamspeak where people idle while waiting for a gather. Once 12 people, they pick. Whoever wants ownership to the channel can make the rules to their own gather. Golden did this already. Why can't other people do this? We don't have the means to make a computer who is fair and consistent enough who will meet EVERYONE's demands.
All we (The NSL) can do about the gather is try to promote and environment where communication and teamplay happen. If that doesn't happen, and there are consistently perpetrators, they should be reported to us with proof of their unwillingness to cooperate. It also needs to be clear to us that it is them choosing not to cooperate and not some of our more elitist members being dicks to new or inexperienced players.
TL;DR it's not the NSL's job to segregate the community based on skill. If you want that, you have the tools to do it yourself (message steam friends).
Snoofed
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Niitze says
Im sure the peoples in charge will make good decisions and they will make adjustments if they suck.
@@@@@@@@@ LoL
asDKFJASFKJASDF RofL im sorry this is too good.
cmon simba cant you fucking SEE There is a problem dude. like seriously you know FIRST HAND How fuckign bad gathers are. comp community will die without a place where people can have high level games. why do you think pubs fucking sUCK ASS and nobody plays them?
or maybe this isnt even simba's post but some garbo copy paste shoved down simba's throat regurgitated into our thread. whAteveR
Gather attendance is way down, and the solution is the ability to create private channels in teamspeak? If that's how gathers are going to happen from now on what's the point of having the gather webpage? Could have people create private gather instances on the webpage, and have people request to join, rather than force that person to personally invite 11 other people.
nazi hunter izO
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People do not necessarily want something like GOLDEN GATHERS to be implemented which would be restricted to only a few div1 players. At least that's not what i want. I personally want gathers to actually LIVE again, and with trolls (or really really incompetent ns2 players) like dixit, senpai, gaben, and so on, thats just not possible. So many players will look at the gather page and see one of those people they just do not want to play with because they are NOT FUN TO PLAY WITH OR AGAINST.
A month or two ago we had like 3 gathers going at a time. Thats just not happening anymore because of obvious reasons. Now you as ENSL admins have to decide: do you want the community to be satisfied and live, or do you want to protect the (not sure if) innocent? We all know which path you chose with eddy, so why not do the same with these few people who ruin gathers for EVERYONE....
The demand for high skill gathers exists too, of course, but mostly because normal gathers are all late-night-div-4-gather-skill nowadays
Also, reporting people is useless useless and not worth the time because WHAT PROOF do you want us to deliver? Take a screenshot of them performing not even half as good as everyone else on the team? Pretty sure that wouldnt do anything, and with the admin (ban) decisions having been so random (when to ban and when not to) it's just not worth it.
And IF they actually get banned, we have one less troll around for a day....... yay...........
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Let's be clear about one thing regarding why there was so many gathers going on recently.
It was unequivocally because medi closed the No Rookies Pub server. Sure the Ns2 dev team had some parts there too among other stuff. 24+ players who played there and got better over time thanks to the environment it had started playing gathers all at the same time. And most of them had become reasonable experienced to play a decent game. It even led to many more people joining a team this season.
Instead of or alongside of, if we want to foster the competitive community, why not sanction a server just like medis for people to play on. Instead of buying slots you have to register at ensl.org or something. It takes care of itself skillwise often enough in forcing lower skill players to spectate. And spectating is both motivation to get better enough to always get picked, and a decent time to learn. It even presented the challenge of carrying your team for higher skill players that gathers don't afford you in the same way, it was a really fun mechanic
Frozen, I think that's partially right. Around the same time there were quite a few high level players who were gathering a lot (Hera, Golden, Schu, Simba, etc.) and willing to put in some time instructing. Plus the seeming return of godar to gathers/comp (Sam, Valk, Eiss, etc.) made almost every gather competitive.
As for the current state of gathers, unlock the 12 player join limit. Allow the top 12 of 16 (or x, whatever) number of players to be picked. At least this way a single player can't shutdown gathers for a night.
Alski Syndrome
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I don't know why some of the leadership is opposed to creating a permanent self-sustained "high level" gather. There is a DEMAND for high skill gathers. These players already don't participate in regular gathers, so accommodating them with a place where they would actually participate doesn't harm any level of this community. The problem I see with having individual players creating their own private gathers is the problem with why Golden's Club died; It requires someone to take initiative and gather a group of "high level" players to join up. When Golden stopped playing NS2, that club went R.I.P. Simba/Vindaloo’s idea requires the individual creator to seek out and find 11 people willing to play, then sending out 11 links each time they want to play a single gather. That’s a ridiculous amount of work, and the person responsible for that will not want to do it again.
We should just have a permanent “high skill" gather set up and managed through an invite only steam group as I mentioned above. Passwords change each week, so if non-members somehow managed to get in, moderators can just remove them and investigate who leaked the password. We don’t need to set specific requirements since that doesn’t effectively define what “high skill” means. Of course this will isolate some people or skill groups, but we won't always have the 12/12 players needed to get started, so we can allow for SOME flexibility and give people outside of that skill bracket the opportunity to play in the “high skill” gathers. Eventually those players may even be invited permanently to join the steam group with the weekly passwords if they play well.
Other competitive leagues already facilitate high level pugs, so it shouldn’t be a moral(?) issue for the whether the NSL should or shouldn’t do the same. Again, for the most part, the people that want a “segregated” high skill gather system are those that already don’t play in regular ones because of the skill differences and the fact that they don't want to have to message 15 people on their friends list to get a decent private gather started.
On top of that, there will still be high skill players that will play in regular Gathers. I'm sure when a player like schu or Simba sees the high skill gather at 3/12 and regular gather at 10/12, they will hop into the regular one because they simply want to play.
Hear hear! And continuing on with my hashtag theme: #iomeforpresident
i said it already in slack....
imo you "High Div Players" should stop whining about sooo bad experiences in Gathers and sign up like you used to.
You creating a need where imo is none. you argumenting like 70% of the ensl are completely retard noobs. when no "High Div Players" sign up there is ofc more low skillers in the gather. wow thats a stunner right?
Instead of complaining you guys should join and balance between skilled and not so skilled players again like it was before and taught them how this game works, like i was taught a year ago along with other new players.
Start at your own nose before point others...
edit: be happy to have new players instead of deny to play with them.
Team Awesome
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There are issues here. NS2 is not as good of a game in my opinion at a high level when 1 or more of your 5 marine field players can't shoot or someone can't play skulk/gorge. It's very easy to tell when the game plays worse - people get destroyed 1 on 1 and are not a threat at all. It doesn't mean you can't have a balanced game, but it doesn't seem to play as well and it looks to be very frustrating to high skill players/even above average players. I don't know what the right solution is though because this could end up hurting the community if the normal gathers don't fill up anymore as a result.
The other issue I see potentially could be players that are decent at the game, but when they look at the normal gather now (the players not playing a high level gather) are they going to be turned off by such a low skill gather? This could result in normal gathers being less likely to fill. NS2 can still be fun when you're trying to beat another good player, but if all those players are just waiting around for high skill gathers...then it might result in really low quality normal gathers and those mid level players might give up on it.
