PETITION to CREATE high skill gather option

phone
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4 April 2016 - 01:33 CEST
#1
i really have talked to a lot of people about this: the quality of gathers has really gone down i honestly believe that we should impliment a "div1 gather" with invite section of the gather list. i know A LOT of players (myself included) who just do NOT play gathers anymore. remember when we had 3 gathers going over the winter? what HAPPENED TO THAT?


let's discuss ideas/implementation here. i know there are a lot of people who also think gathers are unplayable right now.
Cr4zy
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4 April 2016 - 01:36 CEST
#2
there is no highskill anymore
BauerJankins
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4 April 2016 - 01:37 CEST
#3
^ crazy

agreed though, we all would love to play in our OWN skill level and be able to depend on other players.
also, phone you need to add something to your first sentence there..
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
loMe
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4 April 2016 - 01:37 CEST
#4
Already in the works.
Locklear
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4 April 2016 - 01:37 CEST
#5
Cr4zy says
there is no highskill anymore


you're not highskill anymore*

NSL-I Gathers Pls
asdfg
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4 April 2016 - 01:39 CEST
#6
since we already have 'casual' gathers, why not.

the gather menu looks lonely kappa
ydy
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4 April 2016 - 01:43 CEST
#7
ready for phase two, roll it out quick boys

edit: this can't possibly come soon enough. two months ago would be ideal.
Deck
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4 April 2016 - 01:51 CEST
#8
This might be needed. Not sure how you are going to do the invite only part of it. So you link everyone's account that is currently in div 1 to allow them to access the div 1 gather area, right? That would work, but how is the invite only system going to work? There has to be a way to assess people's skills or have some kind of criteria because otherwise it's just friends of people. You could have the admins vote on if that person is skilled enough to play in the div 1 gather. Not sure what you'll come up with.

Also, perhaps when this update is made on the next patch - possibly look into adding a feature that if you join one gather, you are not allowed to join another one without leaving the other one first.

I don't think it would be good if div 1 players were joining the normal gather because there wasn't enough high skilled players around and then switch to div 1 gather because it starts to fill and still be in the other gather. Just make it so you can only join 1 at a time. Also, the casual 7 v 7 gather probably isn't needed if this update is made. Just 2 6 v 6 gathers: one div 1 and one normal.

turtsmcgurts
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4 April 2016 - 02:19 CEST
#9
the way I envision it is participants can send temporary invites (you know, click button, it generates a one-time use link. player opens it, his esl account is given permission to join one gather)

easily loggable so anybody trolling can have their invite privilege removed.
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4 April 2016 - 02:20 CEST
#10
turtsmcgurts says
the way I envision it is participants can send temporary invites (you know, click button, it generates a one-time use link. player opens it, his esl account is given permission to join one gather)

easily loggable so anybody trolling can have their invite privilege removed.


That works if that is doable. Also, if you played on a div 1 team in the past, maybe you could get approved/added to the accepted accounts list from one of the admins if you ask.
phone
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4 April 2016 - 02:59 CEST
#11
Deckard says
That would work, but how is the invite only system going to work? There has to be a way to assess people's skills or have some kind of criteria because otherwise it's just friends of people. You could have the admins vote on if that person is skilled enough to play in the div 1 gather. Not sure what you'll come up with.


after seeing how the admins ranked the seeding of teams i really question their ability to assess the skill of players. honestly we should determine a few players who can really identify the skill level of players and have them talk about players wanting to join the div1 gathers. preferably we would need half EU, half NA judges. maybe having an odd number of judges to encourage the judges to vote honestly to promote rigorous selecting process.

also we could work off the voucher system. clearly some div2 players (look @ you flgithless jerks) are capable of playing in div1 gather

turtsmcgurts says
the way I envision it is participants can send temporary invites (you know, click button, it generates a one-time use link. player opens it, his esl account is given permission to join one gather)

easily loggable so anybody trolling can have their invite privilege removed.


we should determine if we should do council of judges to vote on player application into the gather or have an invite/vouch system.

also we should probably refrain from giving the whole div1 gather section that right. i honestly bet 90% of them don't care to invite people, should designate it to a council of players.


Deckard says
Also, the casual 7 v 7 gather probably isn't needed if this update is made. Just 2 6 v 6 gathers: one div 1 and one normal.


agree'd remove 7v7 gather, if we want that we'll seed NRP
bonage
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4 April 2016 - 05:11 CEST
#12
are there even enough people left for this to work ? Won't most of those players be scrimming at potential gather times anyway? Seems to me with the pool of ppl that are left, you need people outside of div 1 to fill the gaps to get 12.
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4 April 2016 - 05:49 CEST
#13
bonage says
are there even enough people left for this to work ? Won't most of those players be scrimming at potential gather times anyway? Seems to me with the pool of ppl that are left, you need people outside of div 1 to fill the gaps to get 12.


definitely enough people around. i constantly see div1 players playing pubs for an hour or 2, if we channel those players into a place where they KNOW good games have a potential im sure people would be around more to play.

ydy
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4 April 2016 - 06:58 CEST
#14
loMe says
Already in the works.
What's it going to look like, a div1-with-invites sort of thing like what's getting discussed here or just straight-up Hive requirements or what? Any ETA on roll out?

Unless it were already in the works I'm skeptical that an invite system could be developed within even a few weeks minimum and gathers are already a couple months into a terminal AIDS diagnosis right now.
Sardine
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4 April 2016 - 11:07 CEST
#15
Alienating part of the already tiny community is an aweful idea.


It would just become another golden gather, where if you're buddies with the guy that can give out invites, you can get in. But you're shit out of luck if you aren't.
Stranger
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4 April 2016 - 11:14 CEST
#16
Does anyone actually read what phonee says? The first comment I saw from him was very long and after I got a way through it I realized it was nonsensical.

Does phonee have any self awareness at all for the state of the player base and their own self inflated worth?
lebra
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4 April 2016 - 14:05 CEST
#17
Stranger says
Does anyone actually read what phonee says? The first comment I saw from him was very long and after I got a way through it I realized it was nonsensical.

Does phonee have any self awareness at all for the state of the player base and their own self inflated worth?

lol who are you?
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4 April 2016 - 15:38 CEST
#18
Sardine says
Alienating part of the already tiny community is an aweful idea.


It would just become another golden gather, where if you're buddies with the guy that can give out invites, you can get in. But you're shit out of luck if you aren't.


Is division 1 alienating part of the already tiny community? I mean, to play in it, you have to be invited to one of the teams in it...

And now let's say people in those teams want to play but don't have enough from their own teams to play and they just make mixes to play, call it mixes, call it a gather... same thing.
phone
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4 April 2016 - 15:48 CEST
#19
Stranger says
Does anyone actually read what phone says? The first comment I saw from him was very long and after I got a way through it I realized it was nonsensical.

Does phone have any self awareness at all for the state of the player base and their own self inflated worth?


it's phone my dear
Kelmops_noBM
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4 April 2016 - 16:32 CEST
#20
I think people would enjoy playing these mixes or call it high skill gathers. Just remove the 7v7 casual gather, because no one will ever play these.

I personally wanted a "ranked" high skill gather to give people a nice offseason activity or just something to queue up for and tryhard to get a high ranking on the "ranked gather leaderboards".

Not sure about the playerbase being sufficient for a ranked gather system but I feel like it´s a nice idea. Like to hear what you guys think.
Starcetereus
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4 April 2016 - 16:39 CEST
#21
There does seem to be an epidemic of bad players who are just dead weight ruining gathers nowadays. I have noticed a lot of people that used to gather regularly just don't gather anymore. So whether or not you have high skill gathers, a portion of the community will be alienated from gathers. The problem with having high skill gathers though is it may kill normal skill gathers, which will alienate people in div 2 and div 3 who are not necessarily part of the problem. Also there is the question of those that aren't good shots, but have friends in high places. I can foresee these people getting invited to the high skill gathers simply because they are friends, while more talented players sit in a never filling normal gather. IMO, a not perfect, but far more fair option, would be to institute a way to give gather players mob rule. Player-voted temporary gather bans could be a good way to get the people who completely ruin gathers (one way or another) out before it even starts. Of course this can be abused, but IMO it's a far better option than establishing high skill gathers, killing off normal skill gathers, and alienating all the medium/low skill nsl players, all because certain people kill gathers.
aaa
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4 April 2016 - 16:42 CEST
#22
#Ns2PL Iz reæl!
"It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, despite as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope" - J.R.R. Tolkien
BauerJankins
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4 April 2016 - 17:49 CEST
#23
make it work the way turts proposed it and everything's going to be fine
http://i.imgur.com/hr1ud2u.png
DCDarkling
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4 April 2016 - 20:28 CEST
#24
Id say folk from lower div, like me, who are wiling to learn can benefit greatly from gathers.

Sadly I see much more problems with gathers then just skill.

How about the oceans of time needed to start a gather.
And then even more oceans of time to actual get the gather rolling due to afk's, ppl unable to connect or whatever random reason.
People not checking who can do what role, while the pick menu has those clear and lovely icons.. And then complain they lack certain roles in their team.

Right now the gathers in general are not inviting and often on the same disaster level as pubs, but with triple the wait time.
And you want to lower the chance of getting gathers even more by splitting up the gather community?
Why on earth would lower div even bother to keep checking for gathers then.
joshhhy
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4 April 2016 - 20:52 CEST
#25
Div 1 gather option? I honestly don't think people realize that it really won't be used that often. Even when Golden Gathers were a thing, it was hard to get enough people do make them happen... and most of the time we used people from other divisions to fill in.

Turts' idea is more of a Make Your Own Gather option where an invite system is used. This really doesn't need to be 'high skill' and what-not. It's probably harder to develop but would work better. A pure high skill gather system would alienate part of the community as Bruno pointed out earlier.
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4 April 2016 - 21:05 CEST
#26
It already splits the community. I often won't join a gather if no one better than me is in it. Sometimes all I want is to play NS2 and join regardless, but I generally try not to. Sometimes I just want to play and sometimes I want to take a game a bit more seriously.

Proposal: Have an option for "serious" gathers that anyone can still join. Employ harsh punishment criteria (lengthy bans) for failing to cooperate appropriately.

Translation:
I join gather after work --> "yay"
I join gather drunk @ 2am --> I get banned for a while
Kelmops_noBM
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4 April 2016 - 21:28 CEST
#27
Frozen says
"yay", I join gather drunk @ 2am --> I get banned for a while


RIP schu and tap then.
ydy
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4 April 2016 - 22:42 CEST
#28
edit: Updated version of this proposal here.

There's a front page article now announcing gather revamp details. I want to repost my comment from there to here. I think the following tweaks are critically needed. Please retweet like & subscribe to help us get to a timely consensus on this.

* Rebrand "Casual Gather" as "Open Gather" and for now let it be 6v6 (can increase to 7v7 later as demand warrants when it's seeding reliably). Open Gather is open to anyone who follows the basic gather rules; it can and should be publicized as widely as possible to help it seed. Ensure the Open Gather is the default selection when a player loads the gather page.

* Rebrand "Classic Gather" as "League Gather". Please, DO NOT base the League Gather on Hive hours! Instead allow any number of div1 or div2 team members to join and up to four players who are (div 3 team member) OR (Hive score/minute > 9) OR (Hive skill > 2000). This encourages people to become involved in the league and also makes space for promising newcomers to try higher-division league-style play.

* Continue work on an Invite Gather system while the preceding changes go live as soon as humanly possible.
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4 April 2016 - 22:57 CEST
#29
#buildawall #nokappa
Frozen
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4 April 2016 - 23:29 CEST
#30
ydy says

* Rebrand "Classic Gather" as "League Gather". Please, DO NOT base the League Gather on Hive hours! Instead allow any number of div1 or div2 team members to join and up to four players who are (div 3 team member) OR (Hive score/minute > 9) OR (Hive skill > 2000). This encourages people to become involved in the league and also makes space for promising newcomers to try higher-division league-style play.


Why should it be a preference to people presently on a team? They need to most practice? No, they should be scrimming.

My example: I didn't think I'd have time to join a team and scrim consistently, etc., so I put very little emphasis on trying to join one this season. Gathers suffice for my NS2 enjoyment until I think I can commit. I want higher skill gathers too, or at least not to be relegated to the gathers that no one decent will play anymore just because I'm not on a team.

I'm completely okay with the idea that if I join the higher gather I need to feel like paying attention and communicating extra, which I certainly don't do 100% of the time right now in the current system.
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