Forums Official Comp Mod Discussion The NSL Competitive Mod - old thread

The NSL Competitive Mod - old thread

Starcetereus
6797
S11 Forfeit Champs
Posts
134
Location
United States of America
Joined
27 August 2015
20 July 2017 - 18:24 CEST
#421

Keats says


Starcetereus says

We expect just this change alone to tip the winrate further into the aliens favor, which is why it's being changed alongside cheaper jps, cheaper mgs, and instant heal meds, as well as nerfed gorge utility and egg spawns in the early game (early game full clears will be more devastating for aliens, don't be dumb with your skulks).



UWE's changes around that time didn't affect eggs spawns when you only have one hive. So reverting the recent egg spawn changes won't do anything for early game unless you somehow build a hive before the first death wave. (This knowledge comes from the patch notes. I didn't read the code or test it.)

Also I agree with Handshoe that you should value compmod being similar to vanilla.




The patch notes say "Every hive can spawn up to 2 eggs (was 3). The hive’s egg hatch tech spawns 2 eggs (didn’t scale previously).". https://unknownworlds.com/ns2/update-315/. Does that not mean that each hive will only spawn a maximum of 2 eggs to respawn from?

And we kept comp mod similar to vanilla for the past couple seasons, it was meh and I outlined some of the problems with it. UWE is balancing vanilla to make it more rookie friendly to get more player retention so they can sell more copies. We're balancing comp mod for competitive play.
Send PM
aaa
Keats
7098
African Money Bees
Posts
60
Location
United States of America
Joined
23 May 2016
20 July 2017 - 19:00 CEST
#422

Starcetereus says

egg spawns



My bad, you emphasized early game and seemed to be reverting changes wholesale. There is more to that change than just manually spawning eggs and I hope you keep that other part.


Starcetereus says

vanilla differences



I didn't say to always keep compmod close to vanilla, only that closeness should be valued. Maybe it would be easier if I called it a currency, closebux. I argue you should desire closebux, but it's ok to spend them if you can buy a really good balance change. I just want the admins to keep that in mind and not go nuts changing things because they can.
Send PM
Starcetereus
6797
S11 Forfeit Champs
Posts
134
Location
United States of America
Joined
27 August 2015
20 July 2017 - 19:26 CEST
#423

Keats says


Starcetereus says

egg spawns



My bad, you emphasized early game and seemed to be reverting changes wholesale. There is more to that change than just manually spawning eggs and I hope you keep that other part.




Yeah we're definitely keeping the part about hives independently spawning eggs, which is the main reason I and every other comm I talked to wanted this change. With this change, a hive can passively spawn up to 2 eggs, meaning 3 skulks at a time can respawn without running out of eggs on one hive (2 eggs in reserve, as soon as they hatch the hive spawns another egg) and then another egg spawns 13 seconds after the 3rd skulk hatches, which is why I said early game clears will be harder to come back from unless the alien comm uses the hatch egg tech (as UWE refers to it) and manually spawns more eggs. But the benefit you get from this change is that the 2nd hive will spawn eggs independently of the 1st hive. Currently an egg will spawn every 13 seconds at either hive, not both. So as soon as you get a 2nd hive up, your eggs spawn 2x as fast basically. This also makes it easier to come back from being egglocked as the 2nd hive will keep spawning eggs even as all the eggs that are spawned in the first hive are being camped. Previously that would not happen and you could get egg locked on 2 hives because all the eggs are spawning in the hive that is getting egg locked. Generally speaking you're trading maybe having to use egg hatch once or twice in the early game for not having to use it when you get a 2nd hive.
Send PM
aaa
Deck
Noavatar
Team Awesome
Posts
306
Location
United States of America
Joined
17 July 2014
21 July 2017 - 15:44 CEST
#424

Starcetereus says



And we kept comp mod similar to vanilla for the past couple seasons, it was meh and I outlined some of the problems with it.




Meh? I think you're not considering how gathers have been doing lately, and the people that have transitioned from playing pubs to gathers. To call it meh, just because you don't like something I don't think is looking at the full picture. I think the preference to keep certain things as close to vanilla as possible is a good thing and has shown to be the case based on recent gathers and comp play being fun for people.

The game should be fun, transition easy from pub to comp, and be balanced for comp. All of those are important. And when I mention transition easy, I don't mean comp shouldn't be difficult. The hitboxes being smaller makes the game more difficult and that's not a bad thing. What I mean is the game shouldn't feel like a different game. I think if you change the movement of things all over the place, you get dangerously close to making the game feel different. I don't think that's the most inviting thing to do.

Take something like skulk sneak speed. Just because the hitbox is smaller, doesn't mean the current sneak speed will be op'd. Better to try it first. Also, if the game feels slower, that's not a good thing imo.
Send PM
Starcetereus
6797
S11 Forfeit Champs
Posts
134
Location
United States of America
Joined
27 August 2015
21 July 2017 - 18:25 CEST
#425

Deck says

Take something like skulk sneak speed. Just because the hitbox is smaller, doesn't mean the current sneak speed will be op'd. Better to try it first. Also, if the game feels slower, that's not a good thing imo.




The council voted to revert movement changes.
Send PM
aaa
Deck
Noavatar
Team Awesome
Posts
306
Location
United States of America
Joined
17 July 2014
21 July 2017 - 20:29 CEST
#426

We are currently looking into changing the movement to pre hitbox change movement in beta mod. Most of , if not all the other changes have been put into beta mod. We hope to see people playing gathers/ mixes with the beta mod soon.
Send PM
Handschuh
1468
Ram Ranch
Posts
16
Location
Germany
Joined
10 June 2007
27 August 2017 - 22:22 CEST
#427
Stop messing around with compmod and 2tres per medpack, thats not balanceable or fun, if there is a coordinated alienteam thats just to expensive... if 1 tres medpacks are to cheap -> fine but then you need to consider other options than getting 200% of the original price...

You need a slower approach like 1,2tres or 1,5 tres, but that would mean a bit of work like trying to tenfold the expenses and ressgain ... maybe always showing 1/10th of the ress, then you could let it cost 1,5 tres, but 2 tres is just annoying


Send PM
Deck
Noavatar
Team Awesome
Posts
306
Location
United States of America
Joined
17 July 2014
11 September 2017 - 20:29 CEST
#428
Please post in the new thread that is at top of page going forward: The New/Current NSL Competitive Mod
Send PM
New Reply
Forums Official Comp Mod Discussion The NSL Competitive Mod - old thread