ENSL Gather Problems

loMe
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22 May 2015 - 12:47 EDT
#61
Your not allowed to have an opinion about something if you don't participated? Hyste and ryssk aren't even actually giving an opinion on the subject and your still dismissing them since it doesn't help your argument. There are people that support the voting system such as infamous who does in fact play Gathers and he explained his reasoning pretty clearly instead of just saying "NA don't know how to vote" or "its shit."

The point of changing the vote system is so that we play on the best possible server for everyone in the gather, not just the 3 people who drummed up enough votes to play on the best server for themselves (like Vienna as infamous mentioned). Neither system is perfect, but people bitching about the server location is gonna go away by reverting back to the old way.

EDIT: Just to reiterate for the Nth time, because apparently this is not getting through to many of you: The vote system change was made to select the best server for EVERYONE in the Gather. It's to prevent playing on Central European servers with several NA players that might have otherwise won, or vice versa - playing on Central/West US servers with several EU players.
BauerJankins
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22 May 2015 - 18:23 EDT
#62
Hyste says
Wtf Buer :( I keep playing on gathers, but I don't see where is the problem.
Voting for a specific server or for an EU or NA random server is the SAME.
And I NEVER had any troubles playing on a nsl server. The lag/shitreg is a myth, git gud before shitting pls. ;>


THAT'S the thing, I have no problem with playing on any server cuz the shitreg is the same for everyone anyway... it's more about the waiting time and possible problem caused by disagreements on the server. When there was no gather admin around there already have been some arguments on which server to play on. This delays the gather, people wait and get bored and so on. It's just no fun and has no use really. The way it worked before was ok, cuz when people had problems with the chosen server we moved to another one..... I'm gonna stop spammingnow, just wanted to respond to this....
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Knox
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22 May 2015 - 23:43 EDT
#63
Old system >> New system

The old system was more or less automated. People knew what server was picked regardless if they liked it or not. Bring it back.

This idea where the admins feel the need to be involved in every interaction the community has is a mistake and unsustainable. The community structure should be self-sustaining with minimal INTERFERENCE from the admins.

The constant threat of being banned is ridiculous. I don't fear being banned personally, but I fear you will ban others who joke around and have their own fun - and then I won't have anyone left to play gathers with. It takes 12 to gather and there's only about 20 people (maybe less) who gather consistently.

This increased oversight from the admins is unnecessary and frankly, annoying. The (gather) admins are a joke now, and it's their fault.
Hadesia
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23 May 2015 - 07:39 EDT
#64
If the problem is people forgetting to vote, just put a visual reminder : a banner, something written in big red letters (although this thread has already been a huge incentive). If the problem is the server that has actually been chosen, then delete from the list the servers that cause these pb (central euro, west us..). You didn't delete all the maps from the list because of some critics, did you? I still think you shouldn't have done that but, if I do the effort of following that same logic...
Sephy
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23 May 2015 - 07:49 EDT
#65
Knox says

This idea where the admins feel the need to be involved in every interaction the community has is a mistake and unsustainable. The community structure should be self-sustaining with minimal INTERFERENCE from the admins.


I think it's already the case, and admins don't feel any need, stop daydreaming Knox.
Knox says

The constant threat of being banned is ridiculous. I don't fear being banned personally, but I fear you will ban others who joke around and have their own fun - and then I won't have anyone left to play gathers with. It takes 12 to gather and there's only about 20 people (maybe less) who gather consistently.


I guess you're really not aware of the current situation of the gather.
First: gather took ages to start, because there was no threat if you came late
Second: There is only 30people who gather consistently and no more because some of you are joking around to the detriment of other (new) players. And some of them know no limit to this. And that's why we put public our gather offense page.


This increased oversight from the admins is unnecessary and frankly, annoying. The (gather) admins are a joke now, and it's their fault.

Don't follow the rules, and you will see if we are jokes or not. Admins are necessary and mandatory to make the gather go smoothly.

And I wonder why i'm (or loMe is) frankly annoying? Because i'm doing my job maybe? I personnally don't care if some people are joking around the threat of be banned. Just follow the rules and you won't be annoyed. There is 11 rules. It's not too hard to learn them I guess.

(I also wonder if you're angry at me because i made some commentary about you throwing our last game on jambi yesterday)

Anyway thanks for the feedback about voting system.
BauerJankins
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23 May 2015 - 08:01 EDT
#66
Knox says
Old system >> New system

The old system was more or less automated. People knew what server was picked regardless if they liked it or not. Bring it back.

This idea where the admins feel the need to be involved in every interaction the community has is a mistake and unsustainable. The community structure should be self-sustaining with minimal INTERFERENCE from the admins.

The constant threat of being banned is ridiculous. I don't fear being banned personally, but I fear you will ban others who joke around and have their own fun - and then I won't have anyone left to play gathers with. It takes 12 to gather and there's only about 20 people (maybe less) who gather consistently.

This increased oversight from the admins is unnecessary and frankly, annoying. The (gather) admins are a joke now, and it's their fault.


^^^^^^^^^^
Not even trolling.... maybe a bit less radical, but he got the core of it right. When the admins have to overwatch every freaking gather it's just kinda less fun. When people are REALLY insulting someone - which is hardly ever the case - the players will already step up and put an end to it.

"This idea where the admins feel the need to be involved in every interaction the community has is a mistake and unsustainable. The community structure should be self-sustaining with minimal INTERFERENCE from the admins."
THIS is what bothers me the most really. Admins deciding for themselves that they are supposed to have more power just like that is threatening to me, not even kidding. It's like a monarchy where all of a sudden the king says "yea right fuck off i'm gonna take care of that"
Maybe your intentions were good with this, but I really think it's not the right way to go...

Sephy says

Don't follow the rules, and you will see if we are jokes or not. Admins are necessary and mandatory to make the gather go smoothly.


This alone is like... wow.... you're just threatening someone who very objectively stated their opinion. That's just ridiculous and I want to see an end to this. You're supposed to LISTEN to the people here, not let them fear your fucking ban hammer for disagreeing with you... SRSLY
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Knox
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23 May 2015 - 08:53 EDT
#67
Sephy says

I think it's already the case, and admins don't feel any need, stop daydreaming Knox.

I disagree.

Sephy says

I guess you're really not aware of the current situation of the gather.
First: gather took ages to start, because there was no threat if you came late
Second: There is only 30people who gather consistently and no more because some of you are joking around to the detriment of other (new) players. And some of them know no limit to this. And that's why we put public our gather offense page.

Sephy, the real issue that drives new players off is the try-hard attitude where mistakes are unforgivable. It's not from people making jokes. It's from players calling out other players because they lost, or died, or didn't make the pinch and get the life form kill. Most of us have been playing for years, and we don't have the patience for new players. The lack of new players is not from people making asinine jokes.

"I guess you're really not aware of the current situation of the gather." Right back at ya.

The admins are part of the problem, because the admins are some of the most unforgiving try-hards who play. loMe is the biggest try-hard in NA and he will not hesitate to call you shit if he thinks you are. Nothing is ever his fault; that's just a fact of life. He doesn't want to play with new players. And you don't either.

It's not productive to pretend that you're fixing this community and fostering growth when you're really just power tripping.

FYI, I don't have an issue with the Gather Offense Page idea. I like it. But if half the community is on it, there might a problem.

Sephy says

Don't follow the rules, and you will see if we are jokes or not. Admins are necessary and mandatory to make the gather go smoothly.

Stop daydreaming Sephy. Admins are necessary to a certain extent - only when issues actually come up. It's counter-productive if the admins cause issues and resolve those same issues.

Sephy says

And I wonder why i'm (or loMe is) frankly annoying? Because i'm doing my job maybe? I personnally don't care if some people are joking around the threat of be banned. Just follow the rules and you won't be annoyed. There is 11 rules. It's not too hard to learn them I guess.

I don't have anything against you or loMe personally - but I think your justice is misplaced. I don't fear being banned. My biggest concern is that this community is too small to threaten bans for everyone. Last night we waited an hour for just one more player to gather. Let's say you ban Onehit or AD......there probably would have been much fewer gathers last night.

Sephy says

(I also wonder if you're angry at me because i made some commentary about you throwing our last game on jambi yesterday)

No, I'm not angry. I forgive you for losing on Jambi AND throwing the game on Tram. Your calls are really really bad, but it's OK. You're learning and will get better. Just keep trying chap! We'd love to have you back for some more gathers.

Sephy says

Anyway thanks for the feedback about voting system.

You're welcome.
Pelargir
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23 May 2015 - 09:36 EDT
#68
I didn't mean to write down something but I decided to do so after looking at those comments, which are, let's say it, very impressive.

There's been a system for a couple of years, never been touched, never changed. Probably because no one ever complained about those. But as a few people pointed out, no complains doesn't mean the said system is flawless. I've recruited the past months many Gather Admins, sometimes, there were 2 at the same time, and sometimes, only one to deal with all the gathers. For those that remember, we even saw the worst admins (who were absolutely amazing). Some weren't even active and did not play gathers at all, or barely. No one attempted to change the system. And now, there's been a lot of complains about how this old system worked, been raised mostly by NA players who (I'm glad of this) have started to join the NSL gathers instead of their regular pugs. It's quite cool but gathers had to fit with the newcomers in gathers.

Problems were emphasized and therefore, we've seen a few changes as tests to find out whether the old system worked better or if not, it could be improved by modifying a couple of things. People came on this thread and most of them against (not all fortunately) didn't even throw off arguments but only stuff like: 'it's shit' or 'fuck it', and so forth. If you really think things can be reverted back with those comments, you're delusional. Some other pointed out right arguments, both sides did. But now comes the time people begin to blame the admins for doing their job? I mean, is that even possible? So far, gathers have never been more active than right away. I'm pretty sure it's a proof things run out quite well, no?

Of course, there will always be haters, and people bitching or complaining. But even though I do not play gathers, or hardly. I'm not blind and I can see with ease what problems occur on these gathers. Only the same players join over and over again the gathers, excluding either new NS2 players or former players that might be tempted to sign in. A lot of gathers are toxic with players joking about others and they do feel it's no problem, it's fine, it's just kidding. And yet, they want more new players on it? It doesn't make any sense to me. What are the real purpose of those gathers? And this question applies to those commenting in here. You wanna have fun? You wanna play or you wanna be a dick towards others?

So obviously, bans are stricter, and so what? We have 2 admins to deal with that. What should they do? From some view, I could think an Admin gather is pointless and shouldn't even exist. So yes, let's insult other people, or let's act like retards towards them, let's create an uncomfortable place to gather. I don't see any ban that is not proved, and that is not deserved. You're banned, you can only blame yourself. And the current admins could have been less lenient.

You should all really take a look at the gathers as they are right now. And think about them. If you're not able to do so, do not expect gathers to be attractive neither to bring more players. At least, we have 2 guys who willingly and for free spend their time to improve the system. Some seem to not understand that and if you can't think by yourself, there's nothing we can do.
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Hyste
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23 May 2015 - 10:44 EDT
#69
Some people have different opinions, but honestly I think the gather system is very well made and I can't see ANY problems with the admins, maybe Sephy is not the most cool guy in the world but I've never been or seen any unjustified bans.

If people signe up in gather but does not show lets warn them for 3-5 days or something
and during that time if they not show again, lets ban them for 1-2 days that's not so mad.
loMe
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23 May 2015 - 14:44 EDT
#70
Knox, when I'm told by multiple people that "I'm not joining the Gather because 'Player X' is playing" that is a problem. I don't know why this thread turned into a bash Sephy/loMe thread, but I feel like I need to address this. We're not out there to wave a ban hammer in everyone's face. In fact, look at the list now - No one is even currently banned. We have given warnings to a few players in hopes to curtail their behavior in Gathers, but in each case we've personally addressed the players involved and explained to them why they were given a warning. We have been pretty damn lenient with some of those warnings too. Attacking us for doing our job is inconsiderate. Would you prefer we allow people to restart the game 6x before going live just to troll? Are you cool with people AFK-ing after their first death for 5 mins? In these cases, you act like we're permanently banning them too and that they'll never be allowed to play a Gather again. The first ban is 24 hrs.. the second is 48 hrs... that's hardly an inconvenience - its a slap on the wrist and you act like it's a sentencing to eternal damnation.
simple
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23 May 2015 - 19:02 EDT
#71
loMe says
We have been pretty damn lenient with some of those warnings too.

I can second that. I would have handed out bans much more frequent with less discussion.
lebra
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23 May 2015 - 19:43 EDT
#72
loMe says
The first ban is 24 hrs.. the second is 48 hrs... that's hardly an inconvenience - its a slap on the wrist and you act like it's a sentencing to eternal damnation.

not being able to play gathers for that time is eternal damnation.

Kappa
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24 May 2015 - 02:46 EDT
#73
Lambo says
loMe says
The first ban is 24 hrs.. the second is 48 hrs... that's hardly an inconvenience - its a slap on the wrist and you act like it's a sentencing to eternal damnation.

not being able to play gathers for that time is eternal damnation.

Kappa


blame ns2 for ur connection pls

EDIT by simple:
I removed insults
Read the rules again and watch your language.
Sephy
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5 June 2015 - 09:55 EDT
#74
Hello Folks,
here a short announcement, regarding the last Poll's result, I switched back the servers' list.
It means we have now 5 dedicated servers.

__________EU________________________
Wraith :: NSL :: Amsterdam #1
NSL Match - London #2
NSL Match - Paris [NS2FR.com]
__________NA________________________
NSL Match - NA East #2
r/ns2 pugs #3 :: Toronto
_____________________________________

Note that : London #2 don't have Mineral nor Nexus.
Note2: these servers were choose because most of players NA/EU have got less than 150ms latence on each one.

Don't forget to vote your best server when gathering. No complaint will be received in this case:
5 NSL Match - London #2
0 NSL Match - Paris [NS2FR.com]
3 NSL Match - NA East #2
4 r/ns2 pugs #3 :: Toronto
Result: London #2.

Have a good day.
Evisuuup
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5 June 2015 - 10:25 EDT
#75
Sephy says
Hello Folks,
here a short announcement, regarding the last Poll's result, I switched back the servers' list.
It means we have now 5 dedicated servers.

__________EU________________________
Wraith :: NSL :: Amsterdam #1
NSL Match - London #2
NSL Match - Paris [NS2FR.com]
__________NA________________________
NSL Match - NA East #2
r/ns2 pugs #3 :: Toronto
_____________________________________

Note that : London #2 don't have Mineral nor Nexus.
Note2: these servers were choose because most of players NA/EU have got less than 150ms latence on each one.

Don't forget to vote your best server when gathering. No complaint will be received in this case:
5 NSL Match - London #2
0 NSL Match - Paris [NS2FR.com]
3 NSL Match - NA East #2
4 r/ns2 pugs #3 :: Toronto
Result: London #2.

Have a good day.


You might have to put NA Dallas on that list, since hit reg is really really bad on the NA east servers. :-)

I know the ping will be worse, but I'll rather have better reg than good ping, and I think ppl will back me up on this. :-)
lebra
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5 June 2015 - 11:53 EDT
#76
Evisuuup says
Sephy says
Hello Folks,
here a short announcement, regarding the last Poll's result, I switched back the servers' list.
It means we have now 5 dedicated servers.

__________EU________________________
Wraith :: NSL :: Amsterdam #1
NSL Match - London #2
NSL Match - Paris [NS2FR.com]
__________NA________________________
NSL Match - NA East #2
r/ns2 pugs #3 :: Toronto
_____________________________________

Note that : London #2 don't have Mineral nor Nexus.
Note2: these servers were choose because most of players NA/EU have got less than 150ms latence on each one.

Don't forget to vote your best server when gathering. No complaint will be received in this case:
5 NSL Match - London #2
0 NSL Match - Paris [NS2FR.com]
3 NSL Match - NA East #2
4 r/ns2 pugs #3 :: Toronto
Result: London #2.

Have a good day.


You might have to put NA Dallas on that list, since hit reg is really really bad on the NA east servers. :-)

I know the ping will be worse, but I'll rather have better reg than good ping, and I think ppl will back me up on this. :-)

what are you talking about ns2 hitreg is fine KappaKappa
Kmacg
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5 June 2015 - 13:27 EDT
#77
Yeah, I'd say adding Dallas would be a good idea. Server list seems pretty good there, but Dallas has been used quite a lot, so probably worth adding if people like playing there already. Never played the Toronto pug server, so no idea if people would choose it over Dallas.
MV
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6 June 2015 - 04:10 EDT
#78
If Mineral and Nexus aren't on London, request the host to add them. Simple as that
Pelargir
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6 June 2015 - 09:06 EDT
#79
MV says
If Mineral and Nexus aren't on London, request the host to add them. Simple as that


We can't do it. Otherwise, it would have been done for a while already.

UWE used to provide for the NSL servers from Multiplay. They stopped paying but their servers are still up. However, Multiplay claims that UWE is still paying even though UWE clearly confirmed me that they haven't paid anything for a couple of weeks now...

So no, they will never be updated and we don't even have a clue to know when these servers will be shut down.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
loMe
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9 June 2015 - 09:12 EDT
#80
Just for future reference - NA East and r/Toronto are run from the exact same box according to Kaneh. I removed NA East from the list and replaced it with r/Dallas. My assumption is that Americans will only vote for Dallas anyhow since the Toronoto-based servers have been pretty crappy for the past two months.
MV
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9 June 2015 - 13:26 EDT
#81
Pelargir says
MV says
If Mineral and Nexus aren't on London, request the host to add them. Simple as that


We can't do it. Otherwise, it would have been done for a while already.

UWE used to provide for the NSL servers from Multiplay. They stopped paying but their servers are still up. However, Multiplay claims that UWE is still paying even though UWE clearly confirmed me that they haven't paid anything for a couple of weeks now...

So no, they will never be updated and we don't even have a clue to know when these servers will be shut down.
oh xD that's funny. Well... hmm alright then
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